Somewhere around Dutchess County — or maybe it’s Orange County, or perhaps even Westchester County — there is an imaginary yet almost tangible line.

Those on each side of this “border” have fought for decades over many issues. And for as long as there has been this upstate-downstate debate, there has been a solution pushed by a vocal minority: secession.

Secession of upstate is the idea that brought together an estimated 100-plus New Yorkers Sunday in Chenango County for a meeting on the subject.

Yet for its numerous iterations, the idea of splitting the state has never gained real widespread traction.

And it’s not only an upstate-downstate issue. Secession of New York City was Norman Mailer’s idea when he ran for mayor of the Big Apple in 1969. Secession of Long Island was an idea lampooned by Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show” in 2009.

In theory, it’s simple. If a region wanted to become the 51st state in the union, it would need state legislative and U.S. congressional approval. If part of New York wanted to be absorbed by another state (some Southern Tier towns are seeking to become part of Pennsylvania), both state legislatures would have to agree to the plan and Congress would have to ratify the decision.

Then there is what John Bergener Jr. wants to do: Separate the state into two autonomous regions under a statewide legislature with, as his Divide New York Caucus says, about as much governmental power as the queen of England.

“Many people have various reasons for wanting it. Everybody has a slightly different reason,” Bergener said by phone Thursday. This secession plan is to break the state into New Amsterdam (upstate) and New York (downstate) at the northern borders of Westchester and Rockland counties. “About two-thirds of the people want it to provide good-paying jobs upstate. Then there are other reasons for various groups that want it, too.”

Sunday’s rally was in part organized by the Shooters Committee on Political Education (SCOPE), a pro-gun rights group that feels burdened by the controversial SAFE Act. Pro-frackers, who felt burned by the state’s decision to ban hydraulic fracturing for natural gas in the Southern Tier, were also represented.

The Divide New York Caucus idea for secession (to be clear, it’s not secession in the traditional sense of the word) presents an opportunity for real results. Bergener’s group and the others with which it has a handshake agreement want to use a possible constitutional convention in 2017 to bring to voters the proposal to create the two autonomous regions through a constitutional amendment, bypassing the state Legislature and Congress altogether.

If ratified by voters, the regions would have a weighted vote system. There would be regional governors, and the local lawmakers would serve as state lawmakers so there wouldn’t be excess political jobs. Starting a business (over-regulation is one of the groups’ main rallying cries) would be simplified by funneling the permitting and taxation processes through a single state agency rather than multiple, as with the current system, Bergener said.

“All the regulation would be local to the region,” Bergener said. “All unfunded mandates would expire … 15 months after the region is organized, unless reapproved by a three-fifths vote of the regional legislature. So that would force them the first year to review everything.”

The unfunded mandates argument is popular among upstaters, who feel imposed upon by the downstate lawmakers who make up a hefty chunk of state government. Yet, fiscal policy analysts from the left and the right agree that cutting off revenues from downstate through traditional secession would be harmful to upstate.

The Empire Center’s E.J. McMahon and Fiscal Policy Institute’s Ron Deutsch both pointed to a 2011 Rockefeller Institute study that showed New York City and the downstate suburbs both give New York state more in revenues than the state spends on those regions. For example, New York City contributed 45.1 percent of the state’s revenues while the state spent 40 percent of its expenditures on the region. Compare that to the parts of the state outside the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s reach (upstate), which paid in 23.8 percent of the state’s revenues, while accepting 35.2 percent of state expenditures.

“By no stretch of the imagination does upstate subsidize downstate, it’s the exact opposite in terms of the flow of revenues and state government spending,” McMahon said. “However … as a thought experiment, if you wanted to have a separate state, you have to be committed to radically changing the policies that I assume they’re complaining about in all sorts of areas that make upstate more expensive than it necessarily needs to be.”

McMahon pointed to the need to repeal things like the Taylor and Scaffold labor laws in a new upstate. Deutsch took a different tack.

“We shouldn’t be investing in casinos or economic development competitions with the resources that we do have,” he said. “We need to make smarter strategic investments to help upstate grow. To me, that’s infrastructure (and) greater investment in education.”

Using secession as an economic thought experiment is one thing. But it’s also seen as a general thought experiment that helps upstaters or downstaters vent.

“I think the principle point is it is an expression of discontent and anger at the state government,” said Gerald Benjamin, a distinguished professor of political science at SUNY New Paltz.

SCOPE’s Stephen Aldstadt agreed that the coalition of groups pushing secession largely feel frustrated and under-represented in Albany. But rallies like the one held Sunday are taking that frustration and plotting out real action.

“Of course it’s caused by frustration, but we’re serious,” Berenger said. “We’ve incorporated a political action committee to fund it. We’re serious. There’s no doubt that we’re trying to do it.”

© 2015 Times Union